From: Jonathan Overpeck <jto@u.arizona.edu>
To: cddhr@giss.nasa.gov
Subject: Fwd: Re: Gavin Smchmidt'comment
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:06:29 -0600
Cc: joos <joos@climate.unibe.ch>, Ricardo Villalba <ricardo@lab.cricyt.edu.ar>, Eystein Jansen <eystein.jansen@geo.uib.no>, cddhr@giss.nasa.gov, Keith Briffa <k.briffa@uea.ac.uk>, t.osborn@uea.ac.uk

<x-flowed>
David - can you comment, help? thx, Peck

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>Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:51:05 +0200
>From: Fortunat Joos <joos@climate.unibe.ch>
>Organization: University of Bern
>X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
>To: Jonathan Overpeck <jto@u.arizona.edu>
>Cc: Ricardo Villalba <ricardo@lab.cricyt.edu.ar>,
>	Eystein Jansen <eystein.jansen@geo.uib.no>, cddhr@giss.nasa.gov,
>	Keith Briffa <k.briffa@uea.ac.uk>, t.osborn@uea.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: Gavin Smchmidt'comment
>
>
>
>Jonathan Overpeck wrote:
>>Hi Fortunat - Glad you're on this, and thanks for helping us get it 
>>right. I agree we need assurance from Chap 2 (David, can you make 
>>sure we've got it) that the deleted issues are, indeed, covered in 
>>Chap 2.
>
>In particular, I am not sure that chap 2 covers the Solanki et al. issue
>
>>
>>thanks again, Peck
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>What we agreed was actually to keep line 25 to line 34 on p 6-35 
>>>and not just until line 30. (As well line 50, p-36 line 2-7).
>>>
>>>The sentence on line 32/33 that there is general agreement in the 
>>>evolution of the different proxies is important as there is in 
>>>general much confusion about this and this is a chapter 6 
>>>statement covering the whole millennium. The sentence also links 
>>>nicely to the next sentence on line 50. Yes, as agreed in Bergen 
>>>delete the other parts if chapter 2 indeed is going to cover it. I 
>>>have not done so in my revision as I wanted to hear what chap 2 is 
>>>doing before deleting.
>>>
>>>Peck, in total we will delete 22 line. Note that I have also 
>>>squezzed out a few line in the sulfur section. Making progress!
>>>
>>>Regards, Fortunat
>>>
>>>David Rind wrote:
>>>
>>>>Jonathan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Keith and I discussed this at the meeting; basically what we need 
>>>>to keep is:
>>>>
>>>>P. 6-25, lines 25-30, first sentence on line 50, and P. 6-26 the 
>>>>first paragraph (lines 2-7).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>All the rest is discussed in one form or another in Chapter 2, pp. 55-56.
>>>>
>>>>Concerning the volcanic forcing, there isn't nearly as much 
>>>>overlap, and Chapter 6 did not have very much anyway - I think it 
>>>>would be useful to keep what's there, adding just a reference to 
>>>>Chapter 2 (add: "see also  Chapter 2", at the end of line 26). 
>>>>(I'm assuming that Fig. 6-13a still includes the solar and 
>>>>volcanic forcing).
>>>>
>>>>David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>At 11:40 AM -0600 7/18/06, Jonathan Overpeck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi David - it's good to know you can get to work before someone, 
>>>>>even if they live in Europe.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your plan sounds good, and is it safe to assume that you will be 
>>>>>making sure Chap 2 gets the right material from chap 6, and that 
>>>>>we can thus pare our discussion of past solar and volcanic 
>>>>>forcing down to a minimum? Can you give us an update of what 
>>>>>they will not cover that we should (i.e., looking at section 
>>>>>6.6)?
>>>>>
>>>>>Many thanks, Peck
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[It's a sad state of affairs if I'm the one who gets to work 
>>>>>>sooner! (regardless of the time difference).]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What is discussed below is basically what we thought in 
>>>>>>response to Gavin's comment - that we would basically 
>>>>>>cross-reference chap 2, where the primary discussion would 
>>>>>>occur. It's consistent with chapter 2's general discussion of 
>>>>>>how forcings have changed over time, and would seem odd if 
>>>>>>chapter 2 left out past solar and volcanic forcing. Chapter 2 
>>>>>>should feel free to utilize anything that existed in Chapter 6 
>>>>>>on these issues to complement their discussion, if the need 
>>>>>>arises. Once that is finalized, Chapter 6 can then make the 
>>>>>>proper cross-references.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>David
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At 10:26 AM -0600 7/18/06, Jonathan Overpeck wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi Ricardo - good points. We did discuss this in Bergen, and 
>>>>>>>David Rind (as a Chap 2 CA) was going to help make sure we 
>>>>>>>kept things covered in chap 2, while cutting our solar and 
>>>>>>>volcanic discussions in chap 6. The key will be 
>>>>>>>cross-referencing chap 2 carefully. So, Keith, Ricardo and 
>>>>>>>David - please interact to figure out how to work this 
>>>>>>>efficiently. Perhaps David could comment first since he's at 
>>>>>>>work sooner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks... Best, Peck
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi all!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In comment 6-811, Gavin Schmidt points out that our sections
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>6.6.3.1   Solar forcing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>6.6.3.2   Volcanic forcing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>largely replicate the discussion in Chap. 2 on the same 
>>>>>>>>topics. I checked
>>>>>>>>Chap. 2, and they provide a large (almost 8 pages in the SOD) 
>>>>>>>>discussion
>>>>>>>>mainly on solar and but also on volcanic forcings.  Gavin 
>>>>>>>>suggests that only
>>>>>>>>the implementation issues should be discussed in our chapter 
>>>>>>>>and leave the
>>>>>>>>most general information in Chapter 2. We can substantially short our
>>>>>>>>section following his advice.  Please, find below the outline of the
>>>>>>>>sections in Chap. 2 dealing with solar and volcanic forcings. Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ricardo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7 Natural Forcings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.1 Solar Variability
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.1.1 Direct observations of solar irradiance
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.1.1.1 Satellite measurements of total solar irradiance
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.1.1.2 Observed decadal trends and variability
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.1.1.3 Measurements of solar spectral irradiance
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.1.2 Estimating past solar radiative forcing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.1.2.1 Reconstructions of past variations in solar irradiance
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.1.2.2 Implications for solar radiative forcing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.1.3 Indirect effects of solar variability
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.2 Explosive Volcanic Activity
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.2.1 Radiative effects of volcanic aerosols
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.7.2.2 Thermal, dynamic and chemistry perturbations forced by volcanic
>>>>>>>>aerosols
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "Tim Osborn" <t.osborn@uea.ac.uk>
>>>>>>>>To: "Jonathan Overpeck" <jto@u.arizona.edu>; "Keith Briffa"
>>>>>>>><k.briffa@uea.ac.uk>
>>>>>>>>Cc: "Eystein Jansen" <eystein.jansen@geo.uib.no>; "Ricardo Villalba"
>>>>>>>><ricardo@lab.cricyt.edu.ar>; "joos" <joos@climate.unibe.ch>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 12:25 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Special instructions/timing adjustment
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I'm halfway through these changes and will get the revised figures
>>>>>>>>>  out to you probably tomorrow, except maybe the SH one, because:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I'm not sure if the van Ommen (pers. comm.) data shown by Jones &
>>>>>>>>>  Mann and suggested by Riccardo are the data to use or not.  Is it
>>>>>>>>>  published properly?  I've seen the last 700 years of the Law Dome 18O
>>>>>>>>>  record published, so perhaps we should show just the period since
>>>>>>>>>  1300 AD?  That period appears in:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Mayewski PA, Maasch KA, White JWC, et al.
>>>>>>>>>  A 700 year record of Southern Hemisphere extratropical 
>>>>>>>>>climate variability
>>>>>>>>>  ANNALS OF GLACIOLOGY 39: 127-132 2004
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Goodwin ID, van Ommen TD, Curran MAJ, et al.
>>>>>>>>>  Mid latitude winter climate variability in the South Indian and
>>>>>>>>>  southwest Pacific regions since 1300 AD
>>>>>>>>>  CLIMATE DYNAMICS 22 (8): 783-794 JUL 2004
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  See below for some more comments in respect to individual figures.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  At 21:36 30/06/2006, Jonathan Overpeck wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  >Figure 6.10.
>>>>>>>>>  >1. shade the connection between the top and middle panels
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  yes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >2. remove the dotted (long instrumental) curve from the middle panel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  yes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >3. replace the red shaded region in the bottom panel with the
>>>>>>>>>  >grey-scale one used in Fig 6.13
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  yes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >4. label only every increment of 10 in the grey-scale bar (formally
>>>>>>>>>  >color) in the bottom panel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  yes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >5. Increase font sizes for axis numbering and axis labeling - all
>>>>>>>>>  >are too small. You can figure out the best size by reducing figs to
>>>>>>>>>  >likely page size minus margins. We guess the captions need to be
>>>>>>>>>  >bigger by a couple increments at least.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  yes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >Figure 6.11.
>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>  >1. This one is in pretty good shape except that Ricardo has to
>>>>>>>>>  >determine if S. African boreholes need to be removed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I think Henry said they were published and could stay
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >Figure 6.12
>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>  >1. again, please delete S. African borehole if Ricardo indicates
>>>>>>>>>  >it's still not published.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I think Henry said they could stay.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >2. consider adding Law Dome temperature record - Ricardo is
>>>>>>>>>  >investigating, but perhaps Keith/Tim can help figure out if it's
>>>>>>>>>  >valid to include. Feel free to check with Valerie on this too, as
>>>>>>>>>  >she seems to know these data at least a little
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Already discussed above.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >3. also, please increase font sizes and make sure they match 6.10 -
>>>>>>>>>  >probably better to use bold fonts
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  You are right that I've mixed bold and non-bold.  When reduced to
>>>>>>>>>  small size, the non-bold actually read more clearly than the bold, I
>>>>>>>>>  think, so I'll standardise on non-bold.  It's not possible to
>>>>>>>>>  completely standardise on the size, because each figure I provide
>>>>>>>>>  might be scaled by different amounts.  I don't know final figure
>>>>>>>>>  size, so will make a good guess.  Should be ok.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >Figure 6.13
>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>  >1. we are going to split the existing 6.13 into two figure. The
>>>>>>>>>  >first is 100% Tim's fig., and is just an upgrade of the existing
>>>>>>>>>  >6.13 a-d, with the only changes being:
>>>>>>>>>  >1a. delete the old ECHO-G red dashed line curve in panel d, and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Keith says this was discussed and rejected, so I should 
>>>>>>>>>keep old ECHO-G
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>in?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >1b. please also increase font sizes and make sure they match 6.10
>>>>>>>>>  >and 12 - please use bold fonts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  ok, as discussed above.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  >2. The existing 6.13e is going to become a new 6.14, with the
>>>>>>>>>  >addition of a new forcings panel "a" on top of the existing panel e
>>>>>>>>>  >(which becomes 6.14b). To make this happen, Tim and Fortunat have to
>>>>>>>>>  >coordinate, as Tim has the forcing data (and knows what we what) and
>>>>>>>>>  >Tim has the existing figure. We suspect it will be easier for
>>>>>>>>>  >Fortunat to give Tim data and layout advice, and for Tim to make a
>>>>>>>>>  >figure that matches the other figs he's doing. PLEASE NOTE that this
>>>>>>>>>  >fig can't be as large as the existing 6.13a-d, but needs to be more
>>>>>>>>>  >compact to permit its inclusion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  done.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Cheers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Tim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Dr Timothy J Osborn, Academic Fellow
>>>>>>>>>  Climatic Research Unit
>>>>>>>>>  School of Environmental Sciences, University of East Anglia
>>>>>>>>>  Norwich  NR4 7TJ, UK
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  e-mail:   t.osborn@uea.ac.uk
>>>>>>>>>  phone:    +44 1603 592089
>>>>>>>>>  fax:      +44 1603 507784
>>>>>>>>>  web:      http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~timo/
>>>>>>>>>  sunclock: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~timo/sunclock.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  **Norwich -- City for Science:
>>>>>>>>>  **Hosting the BA Festival 2-9 September 2006
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>Jonathan T. Overpeck
>>>>>>>Director, Institute for the Study of Planet Earth
>>>>>>>Professor, Department of Geosciences
>>>>>>>Professor, Department of Atmospheric Sciences
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mail and Fedex Address:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Institute for the Study of Planet Earth
>>>>>>>715 N. Park Ave. 2nd Floor
>>>>>>>University of Arizona
>>>>>>>Tucson, AZ 85721
>>>>>>>direct tel: +1 520 622-9065
>>>>>>>fax: +1 520 792-8795
>>>>>>>http://www.geo.arizona.edu/
>>>>>>>http://www.ispe.arizona.edu/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>>>>>
>>>>>>///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Jonathan T. Overpeck
>>>>>Director, Institute for the Study of Planet Earth
>>>>>Professor, Department of Geosciences
>>>>>Professor, Department of Atmospheric Sciences
>>>>>
>>>>>Mail and Fedex Address:
>>>>>
>>>>>Institute for the Study of Planet Earth
>>>>>715 N. Park Ave. 2nd Floor
>>>>>University of Arizona
>>>>>Tucson, AZ 85721
>>>>>direct tel: +1 520 622-9065
>>>>>fax: +1 520 792-8795
>>>>>http://www.geo.arizona.edu/
>>>>>http://www.ispe.arizona.edu/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>   Climate and Environmental Physics,
>>>   Physics Institute, University of Bern
>>>   Sidlerstr. 5, CH-3012 Bern
>>>   Phone:    ++41(0)31 631 44 61      Fax:      ++41(0)31 631 87 42
>>>   Internet: http://www.climate.unibe.ch/~joos/
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>
>   Climate and Environmental Physics,
>   Physics Institute, University of Bern
>   Sidlerstr. 5, CH-3012 Bern
>   Phone:    ++41(0)31 631 44 61      Fax:      ++41(0)31 631 87 42
>   Internet: http://www.climate.unibe.ch/~joos/


-- 
Jonathan T. Overpeck
Director, Institute for the Study of Planet Earth
Professor, Department of Geosciences
Professor, Department of Atmospheric Sciences

Mail and Fedex Address:

Institute for the Study of Planet Earth
715 N. Park Ave. 2nd Floor
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
direct tel: +1 520 622-9065
fax: +1 520 792-8795
http://www.geo.arizona.edu/
http://www.ispe.arizona.edu/
</x-flowed>

